Posts by not a captive

93

The Bible, Why not Reliable?

by sayitsnotso in

okay here is my thread to discuss this.

i believe the bible is inspired by god and reliable.

many argue it's neither.

not a captive

If following Jesus is about parsing out the Bible, that would be the first sign that he is not from God.

If Jesus is from the living God then I would expect him to say something like this: "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

Jesus' teachings cannot be domesticated into "religious doctrine". That is why he got into trouble. That is how we get into trouble when we who wish to follow Jesus try to convince ourselves and others through the Bible alone. We have to apply what we think we have learned.

It does require faith to trust that some shreds of truth still lie in the Bible's much abused text. But we who have chosen to search out God's will are not bound to going to Hebrew school nor required to decide whether St. Augustine was full of Platonic BS. Apparently we will not find strong support from Jesus if we do too much more than simply invite others to experience his teachings.

Is some faith required? Some small risk? If some germ of his teachings still reside in the gospels, we might be laughed at for trying. But what will we loose?

12

How do you view the truth?

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

.

not a captive

Any organization that has the truth doesn't.

God is true.

.

99

Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

by Terry in

jw
friends

i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

sound weird?.

counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

not a captive

I have carefully read this topic and the really strong posts. Several times.

Terry , Sometimes a thoughts flow out of you like the first draft of a poem--so the ideas are kind of hard to catch. You have, IMHO, a couple of topics here-- not just one. So forgive me if I'm the one who doesn't "get it".

I agree that faith is a form of suicide. But it does not destroy our individuality.

I agree that faitheventually takes a person beyond their understanding, their reason. But I do not agree that faith begins without reasonable evidence. It challenges our reason but invites our involvement. A little bit like conception. Strong faith grows from a cooperative endeavor between the individual and God.

I agree that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses steals and stunts identity. But I do not believe faith steals a person's identity.

If a Witness has faith at first, it dies if they are fully compliant to the FDS. To engage God in a primary way is definitely prohibited. Witnesses loose their faith incrementally as each opportunity to excercise real faith in God is appropriated by the FDS. The FDS tells them what God wants.

Soren Kierkegaard spoke much about the relationship of faith to uncertainty--and to finding one's own true self. He saw the avoidance of real faith that was fostered by Danish National Churches and the failure of people to discover their real identity. No real risk=no real faith=no real identity.

Kiekegaard struggled with faith, he certainly was an individual. But he died outside of his church.

Thanks for your raw thoughts.

Maeve

49

How did you find the strength to leave?

by SAHARA in

to all of you exjws, i'm sure you've been asked this question one way or the other many times and i'm sure the answer is different for many of you, i'd like to know directly from you never having a chance to hear or read many exjw's answers to this.

knowing that you would be cut off from your family and friends and other consequences for your decision to leave, how did you ever get the strength to do it?

i mean really, i find it fascinating to know that there are so many of you who were at one time very devout, if not at the very least loyal to one of the most successful mind-contol organizations ever who believed all if not most of what the society taught and still you found the courage to risk everything once you accepted that it isn't what it claims to be.

not a captive

As others have said in other words: When you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, are you really being strong if you act just to avoid being crushed?

In my life-before-Witnesses I read the Bible and tried to understand God without much solid doctrine (I'd been a Catholic). There were times that terrible troubles or dangers to others(not only myself) came up, when I considered that these matters were more than just selfish concerns, I took them up with him. Outcomes that I could not attribute to chance unfolded. If I entirely gave up on the use of my brain and my senses as reliable tools for understanding. If I only decided that what others declared to be real would be my reality then and only then could I say that God was not a real presence outside my own self. As a result I was convinced of God being a kind teacher.

But my understanding of religion was very traditional. Churches disappointed me for ten years after---then I ended up with the Witnesses.

Rarely did I tell other Witnesses of those earlier events that first drew me to God. But when I told anyone, it was as though I was telling a really dirty joke. Little by little I realized that I had given up a friendship with God for a formal religion that made me deny the very love of God that the WTS claimed to extoll!

I had become sickened and somewhat passive. My children came to belief that I was a naturally unhappy person--but I knew that wasn't true. But I had been putout of touch with my own feelings and my own mistakes and my own God. After remembering how I used to relate to God so much more happily even in my ignorance-- I couldn't take it any more.

February 2009 I presented information that had bothered my conscience for years about the WTS literature. It really should have made the brothers happy to discuss it with me --but in my heart I knew it would get me in trouble. But since I was already suffering so much I went ahead.

That set the machinery in motion--In the Organization,their destruction of my soul was going to finish what was left of it. But as I saw how the best of my friends reacted to my personal action on behalf of the God I love--I was moved to think. They were afraid for me. Afraid! Even though I love God they were afraid for me. And no one talked about God. They talked about the Organization.

Thinking about God gave me strength. And I realized that the WTS Organization doesn't give a rat's @&& about God and they don't love people either. The way the Organization slowly corrupts sincere people into sick, negative sad-sacks who aren't allowed to touch their antiseptic God is more disturbing than any of the religious horror stories they ever told me.

Thinking about God gave me strength.

38

Are you SEEKING the TRUTH of the bible unaided?

by EndofMysteries in

jw
friends

hey,.

i'm hoping some on here, maybe realizing that what the bible really teaches, no church or religion has it.

your learning and working hard to uncover it's true message.

not a captive

And best informed.

49

SOME ENCOURAGEMENT FOR THE NEWBIES AND LURKERS

by palmtree67 in

jw
friends

a quote from "crisis of conscience".

don't be afraid to read it.. .

whatever the initial distress - a distress that sometimes follows the demenaing experience of being interogated by men who, in effect strip one of dignity, make the weight of their authority felt, and presume to judge adversely one's standing with god - however torn one may feel inside, afterward there is a distinct feeling of relief, of peace.

not a captive

Wonderful topic, wonderful posts.

Yes, look at what is done in the name of truth by your religion. No matter what excuses may be offered for changes or mistakes by your religion, If you are not allowed the possession of your own conscience and allowed to follow the Lamb as freely as anyone else then you are a slave of men.

Worship of God in spirit and truth not only allows you your conscience but requires your very own conscience.

Never be afraid. Never.

Maeve

14

books of the bible

by ssn587 in

what scriptures did those christians in persia, india, china and other asian countries use during the early christian years?

have heard about lost christianities, and christianity in asia minor, and points east and was wondering if they had manuscripts and holy writings they used..

not a captive

It seems reasonable that there is a core to any story. How to find it though?

It seems to me that I am not expected to find God through "accurate knowledge" as in doctrinal purity. If we are drawn to God in hearing the story (stories)of Jesus we may yet find what we need to know.. If God is a living God, I expect him to help me understand him even if I can't read.

Does that seem too much to expect of God?

42

I have found the truth about the truth now...

by truthseeker12 in

i am a third generation of jehovah witnesses, even if i never got baptized.

however, they disfellowship me when i was around 15. this was around 1987. even if i have not been in the "truth" for so many years it has affected all my life in many ways not only negative.

a couple of years ago i thought the events in the world maybe proved to me that they were right after all.

not a captive

Welcome TS12,

I too am reducing my faith to the point of my beginning:

God is good. Jesus lived and taught what is good and necessary to know about his father. He taught us how we should treat each other.

You are not afraid of information. That is good. This is a healthy forum for people made sick by religion. But the medicine is very strong here. The posters give a genuine greeting and then they will thoroughly and smartly, sometimes rudely and sometimes crudely examine any idea that you float out on the board. So take care. And God bless you. Maeve

38

Are you SEEKING the TRUTH of the bible unaided?

by EndofMysteries in

jw
friends

hey,.

i'm hoping some on here, maybe realizing that what the bible really teaches, no church or religion has it.

your learning and working hard to uncover it's true message.

not a captive

Thanks PSac--That make so much more sense--about the head covering.

Paul isn't as dogmatic as some think. In 1 Cor. 7 he speaks extensively about matters to do with singleness and marriage. He frequently makes distinctions between his personal opinions and thoughts that he thinks are rendered through him by God's spirit. Interesting that he doesn't think that every word he says is "gospel truth".

4

Proverbs 3:6 Logically Impossible to Follow as a Jehovah's Witness

by sabastious in

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not a captive

Sab,

Proverbs 3:6 absolutely does not require us to follow the FDS --blindly or otherwise. It is only that they teach "new ones" from the first that God and the FDS are essentially the same thing.

They are not God, they are not Jesus. They prevent any anointed Christians who even do buy this story from obeying the Christ. Rev. 14:4 says the anointed "follow the Lamb wherever he goes". But according to the WT these anointed who are not serving as the Governing body, the FDS, they are required to follow --not the Lamb--but the FDS. Even if they do not agree with the teaching.

Is this following the Christ? Is this trusting Jehovah?